Derek's Notes from his Pilgrimatic talk w/ Jonathan Pageau

what Derek found insightful and valuable from a special conversation

Here are my notes from a wonderful conversation with Jonathan Pageau on June 22, 2023. YouTube link below, and my notes below that.

Updates to the Symbolic World

Resonance helped fix the website. New website, logo, blog, online community forum.

Heather Pollington designed new logo, illustrated Snow White, creative director for Symbolic World Press. Melissa Lareau heading Symbolic World Press and community engagement.

Carving assistant, David, made the SW mosaic.

SW Press - J almost died making God's'dog (!).The logistical stuff almost killed him. The SW Press was a solution to ironing out the problems of the God's'dog. SW Press going to start as a launching pad for God's'dog and fairy tale series. In the future, it will publish Universal History, SW Magazine, Orthodox Arts Journal, et. (and a few secret projects).

SW Magazine is a little scary because it's not the golden age of magazines. We are in the waning phase of publishing. Have to think of publishing as an event with cultural engagement, something that marks a moment. Benefit of getting people engaged in the analog world. D excited to be apart of a team that can now produce a physical product.

Digital Space pros/cons

Online world can carry over into the local, analog world. Giving people ways to go out an participate in their communities. Also, the danger of online space sucking people in and leading to distraction.

Kids without smartphones can be outcasted by friend groups. Parents need to set up digital hygiene and parameters for moving forward.

The struggle for younger siblings is that things get to them faster.

Raising kids

D kids live in a Garden of Eden. Their day consists mostly of catching and re-catching baby toads. They watch VHS tapes, not bombarded by digital ads.

J kids growing up had one hour screen time a week, and a movie.

Watching and re-watching good stories. G.K. Chesterton's passage on the eternal appetite for infancy (see my earlier post The Eternal Appetite of Infancy to read the full quote). "Do it again". J would re-read a lady bird fairy tale collection with his kids. They would cycle through them. - cool backstory to his new fairy tale series.

D, kids have a way of inspiring parents to see the world more deeply. Family acts as a complimentary unit.

Snow White Kickstarter

It's a "Kairos moment". Wrote Snow White play for his kids. He's tired of complaining about the disappointments of modern storytelling. It's time to create. Can learn from this postmodern moment; things that aren't in old fairy tales.

The series will be 8 interconnected story set in a mythological universe pointing at how this is embedded in a Christian world. Will include hagiographical, legendary Christian stories, like what is covered in Universal History.

What postmodern storytelling does really well - collage storytelling.

Can tell narrative elements not in the story but in the images.

"We're really trying to make something world-class, not accepting mediocrity in anyway. We want to produce the best."

Pilgrimage to Mount Athos

Son turned 18 and going to Coast Guard for 4 years. He's leaving the house. Grandfather joined as well - three generations of Pageau men.

Left civilization, Thessaloniki, and take fairy boat to monasteries on the island.

Revival happening at the monasteries. Everything is pristine. The state of the monasteries are beautiful. It's a magical place.

Connected via Timothy Patitsa with Father Ieremias, a Texan convert.

Can see Mt Olympus from Mt Athos. Can see the old mountain with the old gods from the new mountain, a holy place dedicated to glorifying God. Can see the difference between the two worlds. It's no longer a place of jealous gods and fighting principalities; it's an orderly procession of angels and saints that love each other and worship God.

Vigil went from 7 to 2 in the morning! The chandalers with candles are spinning and swinging; it's like an Orthodox disco with orbiting lights.

Person became a monk because of Jonathan's work, dedicated their life to God. J sobered to wake up and take his work seriously.

J complemented on his liturgical art by Father Lucash, one of the best in the world. J impressed by his humility and genuine interest in talking with people.

Abbot of Pantokrator monastery, a highly educated man, had the eyes of a mischevious child. J's son, more of a technical engineering mind, unimpressed by icons in treasury. The abbot insisted on creating memories for him. He took them to the library of the monastery. He takes out a cloth bag and told J's son to reach into the bag and lift out a book. J's son is holding the book and the abbot tells him that he is holding a 12th century manuscript. And he leaves him hanging there for a good moment, then tells him, "now you're not going to forget that."

Relics, frescos, icons

No miniature relics at the monasteries. They bring out the leg of St. John Chrysostom, the head of St. George, the belt of the Virgin that fell when she ascended at the end of her life, pieces of the True Cross. One Russian monastary had a St Christopher represented as a dog-headed saint.

Frescos have been cleaned and restored. The soot of the candles and incense preserved their quality. Now they are pristine.

Monk showed J an icon painted of St Gregory of Palamas by someone who knew the Saint.

Wonderworking Icons known to float on the Mediteranean Sea to Athos. Some move around; they vanish and show up in other monasteries. The legend of the Portaitissa Icon: if it leaves Mt Athos it spells the end of the world.

The image is a vector for holiness, just like in the Gospels, the shadow of St. Peter and the scarf of St. Paul. The miraculous is concentrated. Best not to account for the mechanical causes of these things.

Rites of Passage

Puberty initiation - J invited Christian men to come to cabin in the woods. Gave him a good knife. Daughter met with the women, celebrating life and maturity.

We have to be deliberate about these initiations in the West. Take graduation ceremonies seriously because we don't have much beyond that.

Adventure v Pilgrimage

Pilgrimage is the goal of getting closer to God. "It's a physical enactment of a spiritual journey." Physically enact going to a holy place so that there would be a transformation inside of me. It's a conjunction of multiple things all at once.

"If you spend a week walking towards something, it's going to change you. I don't know what to tell you. There's no way around that. If the destination is related to your faith, it's going to make those things more vivid to you. Spending your energy and attention on it will make it more important."

low resolution versions of pilgrimage - eg hiking yosemite valley, visiting Disneyland. It's a hierarchy. Can participate in pilgrimage in little versions, enacting a holy moment on a local hike to a holy place. “There’s little things you can do to enact what is important to you - little versions of pilgrimage.”

Memory - Going to a place connected to the past, an origin. Going to Jerusalem, walking on the same paths - ritually participating is a form of active memory.

Inspiration and Takeaways

The trip filled him with hope, seeing a new wave of young monks and revival. It offered an opportunity to detach and refocus and remember the why of his mission.