My Notes from Matthieu Pageau Conversation
jottings with timestamps you might find valuable
Here are my notes from the conversation with Matthieu Pageau.
Negative circumstances produced new insights
Yurt Life - 4:00
anticipates energy of animals doing strange things
Waking up in the middle of the night to tend the stove is when he gets his more profound ideas - 10:29
gets clearer understanding of simple things
Write it down!
monks used to get up in middle of night. Reason why they did that. Brain functions differently
Day in the life - 12:29
life is all about 1) eating, 2) sleeping, 3) getting water
humans use a lot of water
He carries water. lasts for a few days. needs to get more.
Manual work and reflection - 14:01
using mind for task completion instead of deep thinking.
manual work is good for intellectual pursuit. body can be productive and free the mind.
Gardening is good. gardening is the best - 16:11
Applying LoC - 16:20
Stop Overthinking: We Eat. We Breathe - 18:00
Eat: we create our own bodies with this matter.
Life is about integrating the world into yourself. Then expressing new insights from your existence.
We've got to go back to the basics. back to experience.
What do I observe?
Exercise: Imagine if you were primitive man...
Ancients way of thinking was more profound than ours
Why does sun rise from the ground in the morning?
shows pattern of cycle.
This thinking, you discover the patterns of the universe. Technical explanation is not so important.
Ecclesiastes: what's the purpose of life?
probably watching the cyclical patterns of life and the sun.
you are born. you die.
Technical explanation is not so important.
Levels of Reality - 24:43
Gardening. knowing biology changes little about gardening.
does technical help us understand more of who we are as humans?
Computer: hardware v software
can be a software programmer without knowing how to wire the computer. why are we okay with that?
levels aren't connected
program v mechanical level
scientists explain lower levels with the upper levels
miss the higher levels?
theology can think they have a monopoly, that their level encompasses all reality.
get lost in extreme abstraction to the point it is not useful?
principles separated from stories of the Bible
e.g. God changes his mind. he repents.
can hinder understanding the stories, trying to justify concepts.
We don't have the right connectors.
Greek concepts into Christianity...
were too high. can't connect reality to these high-level ideas
two levels of disconnected realities: technical & theoretical
there's a lot of work we have to do.
Matthieu not building the bridges. more clarifying the distinctions. mapping.
Jonathan not building the bridges, but bridges of communication as interviewer
"pure Greek stuff"
Perspective, revelation, veils - 41:40
seeing something v seeing the importance of it
some things can modify your vision of the world
symbolism of light - 42:40
light is fire
light consumes/eats things
there needs to be something there to be eaten by the light
use light to cook food
direct v reflected light - 45:02
where do we see reflected light in nature?
water is the only thing that reflects light in nature
water + mirror
source of renewal in Bible? - water (mirror)
looking at yourself and cleaning yourself are connected.
David/Bathsheba - crying, renewal - 49:04
When does water come out of us? when we cry
David sees B in the bathwaters.
David sees himself as guilty. reflects upon his sin
Nathan uses parable, liking holding up a mirror, for David to see himself.
David's sins starts with the mirror in the bathwaters. Seeing the fallen part of himself
Seeing wife/kids is looking at yourself in the future. looking at woman as wife with your kids in future. who you could be.
Moon, reflection - 53:13
calls forth the tides
syncing up the cycles
we live on fake light. the cycles are messed up.
subtle influences. cycles of influence
Symbolism of women in ancient world - 56:27
in patriarchal society
one day my daughter is going to leave my family and join another family.
she will be a traitor in a way. could become loyal to a family that could be in competition to yours
she could reveal secrets of your family to her new ones. could be hosting a potential spy
e.g. story of Jacob. he joins his wife's family - inverted scenario.
woman was the stranger that comes into a new family.
Role of Eve - 1:02:13
foreign perspective
can bring something new. or could bring treachery
Dowry shows value to the family. honoring, not insulting
son stays forever. daughter leaves you.
Motherhood, refreshment - 1:07:16
mothers make new humans, give birth to the new men
refreshment, baby is a fresh human.
Bathsheba / Solomon
event is a microcosm of all the story of David. represents renewal. is the 8th child.
8th is the new star, new cycle
Why is David in the margins of your book - 1:10:19
Matthieu’s purpose in life is to explain what David is all about
David’s story is related to our times.
it's the time of king david.
We must recognize the signs.
Order of books: 1) LoC 2) Eve 3) Samson 4) David
His purpose is to one day talk about David
Samson / David 1:13:00
Samson is the sun. David the moon.
Samson understands pattern of the cycle at death. David understands his whole life.
"A living dog is better than a dead lion." Samson is the dead lion. David is the living dog.
Samson killing the lion is him killing himself. The end of the cycle.
Lion is related to solar symbolism.
Riddle: "What is stronger than a lion?" - Samson
Lion, Honey riddle is a microcosm of the whole story of symbolism
David understands. Can't kill your enemy because you kill yourself.
Samson understands this at the end, and he kills himself to kill his enemy.
Book of Judges - both saviors and judges at the same time.
the paradox of cycle
Opposites, a cycle.
They save them, then attack them.
Gideon defends Israel and attacks them.
David is a renewer of the king - 1:22:29
why he is a musician
David renews Saul with music - microcosm, mini version of the whole story
about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
disrespect the office of the king by killing the king. leads to a cycle of vengeance.
not killing king Saul is selling himself in the future.
David is the master of the cycle. He's surfing the pattern of the cycle.
musicians are master of cycle
How do you avoid the cycle of vengeance?
still enters into the cycle of revolution, but uses it to his advantage.
David gives responsibility of vengeance to his son.
idea of a legal system. escaping avenging yourself with a system of law.
Story of Ester does too.
Use the cycle to defeat your enemies but not be defeated.
cycle starts with a confusion between enemies
Haman confuses what was said toward himself. Wants to punish Mordicai but punishes himself.
What's coming soon - 1:32:20
people messing up our world are masters of the cycle.
Looking for people who know how to use the ycle but in a good wayfor renewal. real renewal. not the kind of renewal that they want to do now.
Best of the Live chat posts
He Can love and give with out ever diminishing. inexhaustible love
Treat knowledge like a wounded animal that you are nursing back to health. You can’t domesticate it because it needs to return to the wild to have a life of its own.
"Creation is a school, whereby we learn to love God" - Saint Basil the Great
The reflection is a really important thing to understand if you want to understand a lot of what Christ says. The 1st shall be last… etc
As water reflects the face, so one’s life reflects the heart. prov 27
Crying is called the 2nd baptism. We pray for tears constantly. for God to soften our hearts. tassels at end of prayer ropes are designed to wipe off tears.
I see Matthieu as metaphysical rehab
psalms are the heart of the OT
Sampson is also a picture of the Harrowing of hell in the end. Like Christ, The fire shows up in the abyss. A cosmic trick.
Babylon, Derek. “Lately we ain’t finding any honey in the lion, men are lying with Delilah and their fire is subdued.”
Our inner cosmos is a reflection of the outer cosmos. We are patterned after the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the fall.
Nabal being Laban spelling backwards.
So by killing the king, you are idolizing the Grace and presence of God
The reason people don’t get the symbolism of the knowledge of good and evil is because it’s already too close to home. A given. It’s the pattern of our existence. It’s like ancient cultures that had…No word for the color blue. It seemed like a baseline
the double with your enemy is like the fairy tale of the guy with the wishing-horn
Relevant Links
Matthieu's book: 'The Language of Creation' - https://www.amazon.com/Language-Creation-Symbolism-Genesis-Commentary/dp/1981549331
Derek's commentary on 'The Language of Creation' - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHxBkl6ci7xeqmA7giy9EonpgA9dO8TT0
Podcast w/ Matthieu's brother Jonathan Pageau on Symbolism & Sexuality
Podcast w/ Matthieu's comment on initiation
Cormac Jones 'Cosmic Chiasmus' article - https://thesymbolicworld.com/articles/the-cosmic-chiasmus/
Matthieu’s Unpublished Text on Music and David w/ Derek and Josh commentary
This was very insightful, so much to learn! Thank you, I'm looking forward to more. Your conversations are very helpful to me (and I'm sure many others) and I appreciate it a lot.
I left a comment on the video but realized it would probably get buried because there are so many comments, so I thought it might be a good idea to ask you here as well:
Do you think the lion story and riddle represent Christ's death and subsequent coming of the Spirit/Kingdom of Heaven?
If Sampson is representative of Israel and God.. let's see - Sampson, who is joined with the Spirit of God, kills/sacrifices the Lion representing the Christ. In other words, humanity/Israel + God kills/sacrifices Christ, and what is the result?
Honey, representing the Spirit of the Promised Land, the Kingdom of Heaven which is in the Holy Spirit. Like the water coming out of the Rock (Christ) at Horeb (Sun), symbolically the Spirit coming from the Christ, the Logos, the Honey here coming out of the Lion is the Kingdom of Heaven and the Holy Spirit flowing out and into humanity through the death of the Christ.
Similar symbolism: "If my people would only listen to me, if Israel would only follow my ways... ...you would be fed with the finest of wheat; with honey from the rock I would satisfy you." - Psalms 81:13-16
“So I have come down to deliver them from the power of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and spacious land, to a land flowing with milk and honey.” Exodus 3:8
Honey = Associated with the highest things; Wisdom, the Divine, the Spirit, the Promised Land, Heaven, and the reward of diligence and obedience (land flowing with milk and honey):
- Color of gold
- Color of the sun
- Similar to Heaven which is described as having roads of translucent gold
- The Promised Land, metaphor for the Kingdom of Heaven is the"Land flowing with milk and honey"
Rock:
- Daniel’s dream tells of the rock which is Christ toppling the kingdoms, growing into a mountain and taking over the world, and the Holy Spirit sweeping the Kingdoms away like chaff on a threshing floor (The wind swept them away without leaving a trace.)
- Moses strikes the Rock at Horeb (sun) and at Kadesh (holy/sacred) and Meribah (quarrel)
MoonShine-Luna Tic-Unconsious-Spirit-Spiritus-Sleep on it